Monogamy, anyone? Bueller?

[DaBomb]

I'm more a traditional kind of girl and I wish "monogamy" was as prevalent in the Burner community as "polyamory". It's like, it's almost uncool to be monogamous or something. Maybe if I try to start a monogamy tribe, the notion of it maybe considered alternative and soon it will become hip, but then I'll have to explain why, as the leader of the Kissing Bandits a group of women dedicated to stealing as many kisses as they can, why I'm advocating for monogamy! Hmmmmm.... :rolleyes:

[Lecter]

I personally don't care which is prevalent. As long as the parties involved are in agreement, I think monogamy and polyamory are cool. Both have benefits as well as detriments.

I think problems occur when the parties involved don't have compatible views. If one wants monogamy and the other(s) want polyamory, then I'd expect nothing but trouble.

Just my 2¢.

L

[Pink Daddy]

I hardly consider myself old-fashioned, but probably I am in this situation. I'm not going to go into pros and cons of one or the other, anyone has the right to have any type of relationship they want... but personally, I'm selfish when it comes to people that I date. I want the person that I date to be selfish too (within reason, not including jealousy). Monogamy is my thing, but it's definitely the exception, not the prevailant custom.

[iii]

i know plenty of monogamous couples that go to (went to?) burning man. you just don't notice them as much because they're not out hitting on you as fresh meat.

[Ken*again]

...but then I'll have to explain why, as the leader of the Kissing Bandits a group of women dedicated to stealing as many kisses as they can, why I'm advocating for monogamy! Hmmmmm.... :rolleyes:

After dating a bandita, I must admit its difficult feeling monogomous if your sweetie is giving out the smooches to any ol' joe-party burner. :mad:

[Medicine Man]

I disagree with the assertion that most burners are poly. Most aren't but those who are tend to talk about it more, and since their polyhood involves others, they would of necessity advertise in order to attract other pollies.

[water_bear]

<my $0.02>

I've been researching and pondering the poly phenomenon in the last few years. I don't really understand it. And am frustrated by it because I've had failed open relationships. And yes, a failed manogamous relationship can hurt, bad.

I see poly as an attempt to "protect" onself from being emotionally hurt or having ones freedom restricted, by not becomming attached to lovers / partners.

Most the "poly" people I know are just as, if not more, miserable than "mono" people (as myself). I found in some cases after a while poly people miss having "meaningfull" or "sincere" relations and can feel isolated and lonely. Worse yet they havn't had experience with lasting relationships, and are in someways inexperienced in relating to others. I think poly, longterm can be damaging to ones psyche, but it can help one discover what one likes, wants or needs from others?

Old Fasioned Romantic,
Bear :o

[Editrixstar]

Just because polyamory didn't work for you doesn't mean it's an inherently unhealthy lifestyle.

I've experienced way more misery in monogamous relationships than I have in non-monogamous ones. I don't understand the dominant society's insistence that you find complete fulfillment in one person alone. Some people are lucky enough to find that one person that makes them feel complete. Me, I've always felt less whole when in traditional relationships.

I don't see being poly as a way to protect myself. I still experience my share of pain & rejection. But for whatever reason, I am MUCH happier when I have multiple relationships with people I care about. Some of my relationships have lasted for years, even after the sex ends. If there wasn't any depth or substance to these relationships, this wouldn't be possible.

I'm not sure why you seem to think that it is not possible to have meaningful or sincere relationships with multiple people. Are you capable of only having one true friendship? More likely, you have a mix of friends based on your different interests, and you feel a certain level of (non-sexual) intimacy with a number of them. Being poly is similar, only you have sex with some of those friends.

[water_bear]

sorry, I didn't mean to imply that poly was unhealthy for everyone.

but for me..

It's challenging to maintain even one intimate relationship.
I would be stressed with additional intimate partners.

I know that Communication and respect are key.

Last time I had two non-commited girlfriends, they got in a fist fight together.
Over this I was later assalted by a convict/thug with brass knuckles,
because I unintentionally hurt my girlfriends feelings.

Humans are crazy.

Bear

[GrumpyOldBastard]

i've been in both situations, and i must admit, i prefer a manogamous relationship. its just too hard for me to juggle my feelings for 2 or more different people at one time, not to mention the potential for accidentally spreading STD's i'm not saying that a poly person is more prone to that, BUT accidents happen.

[Editrixstar]

<looking around nervously>

Dang, have I joined the wrong on-line community or something? Why all the hate? It's all about love! ;)

Seriously, though, for some people (like myself) the poly thing works and is a true expression of how we love others -- in an unlimited, non-possessive sort of way. For others, they find happiness in loving one person. That, historically, hasn't worked for me. And not for the reason you're thinking -- it wasn't because I wanted to sleep with other people. It's because I'm a very independent person who feels complete by myself, and having to make a life with another person made me feel less like myself.

And Water_Bear, your story just underlines your point about communication & respect being key. If you had been dating these two women with integrity (this means that they were not only aware, but approved), things wouldn't have turned out that way. I've certainly never experienced this kind of drama.

[Mutty]

I much prefer to work with Pine, I find Mahogany too limiting and too rare these days.

[Mutty]

in spite of my fear of actually adding serious content to this site, I should provide some thoughts as well.

Since I have never attended BurningMan I am unfamilar with the "lifestyle" scene at the event, I can only speak from my experiences in our "civilized" world. My partner and I have been in a committed relationship for over a decade now and completely open to others for three of those years. We do not consider ourselves polyamorous but more polysexual. Ours is a fully loving relationship where we can sexually expore others freely.

I am assuming a lot of the goings-ons at BurningMan tend to approach this dynamic more so than people making romantic connections?

The appeal I feel with BurningMan is that it seems to be a setting with an immense variation on people's living large. Each individual doing it their way, totally uplifting! The biggest lesson I've learned to date being "in the lifestyle" is that we are not alone, mono; poly; celibate; self-loving; whatever, we have commonalities galore!

[Editrixstar]

Thanks for posting, Mutty. I was starting to get lonely here.:)

It's funny -- I didn't even have sex either of the times I went to Burning Man. In fact, I didn't even have anyone approach me sexually (unless you count my campmate passing out in my tent, but alas nothing happened there :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the positive message, Mutty. It really is about acceptance and respect of different people's lifestyle choices.

[dr.placebo]

Monogamy is what I'm doing now, and have done since I met my wife in 1981. I'm satisfied with it and committed to it.

But I've been in open relationships in the past, and I won't say that they can't work. We have a lot of cultural "education" that makes it difficult because we have been told (frequently) that it's bad or impractical to be non-monogamous.

You're going to have to find out for yourself. Every person and every couple has to establish their own limits.

"The bonds of matrimony are so heavy that it takes two to carry them, sometimes three." -- Alexandre Dumas (rough translation)

[karr]

It's challenging to maintain even one intimate relationship.
I would be stressed with additional intimate partners.


I've been in both situations as well and have to side with monogamous because of the above statement. A single relationship and trying to make it work is quite challenging and juggling multiple relationships was just straight-out overwhelming for me.

After several failed monogamous relationships, I decided against it, and found that I was trying to use multiple relationships as a way to not get too close to someone until trying to balance everything was too much.

Each has it's benefits and downsides. I don't hold anything against either and realize that things work differently for different people. I just prefer monogamy for my own sanity.

[Silly Diego]

I am fascinated by people who are in open and working relationships. It does work for some people without a doubt. Reportedly, 75% of gay (male) marriages are successfully open. It even works for entire societies who have historically embraced it. So there are many examples of it’s success.

I was in an open marriage and so have experienced both worlds. The more time I spent with my wife, my desire grew continually less and less for outside partners. And I was in an ‘ideal’ hetero male relationship as she instigated and only had desires to bring other women to bed with us!

For me now though, I want and enjoy commitment. However, I learned creating a highly successful and long term committed relationship takes a LOT of work! It is a very complicated and ever-changing target as we age. Indeed it is so difficult to maintain that the vast majority of people inevitably fail in the effort and divorce.

Therefore, I now ask myself, why in the world would I want to complicate the issues by adding all the dynamics of hurt feelings, misunderstandings, and simple compatibility of a third person?

Besides, what we are really talking about here is sex. We can maintain deep, non-sexual, friendships throughout life outside of our monogamous relationship and that is acceptable to most emotionally mature partners. But when you add sex to three people, someone almost always ends up being a third wheel. After all, troikas in almost all it’s forms almost always ends up with an outcast.

Because I find it so fascinating, I always try and engage people I know in “working” open relationships how it is and how it works. Surprisingly (or not) as I dig deep, almost always someone is the instigator/proponent, and the partner has silent regrets at not insisting the relationship evolve into something much more emotionally exclusive. And there lies the rub, typically in my admitted small sample, one partner values the sex and wants variety, the other values a deep emotional bond, and stays unfulfilled because the sex is good and hope remains (typically unsuccessfully) that the bond still can be developed.

Again, I know this is not true for all, so you don't need to share your examples, but in our society the failure rates of open relationships are statistically higher.

As for me, I know myself. Sex is an emotional experience. I can and have suffered performance issues when emotional bonds, or at least the fantasy of, are missing. So maybe two primarily sexual creatures will be successful in open relationships, while adding even one emotional creature negates the equation of long term success.

I deeply respect those that it works for, but remain skeptical about the long term success and am no longer willing to gamble with *my* happiness. And I know this is only *my* opinion, not gospel.

Sorry my first post on this new site is so long, and thanks for the opportunity! One of my favorite topics!

[phlyfiremama]

I have tried both...I wasn't successful with Poly but think that it was my own issue of insecurity..my feeling was that someone was going to have to go home alone, or somehow that "the other person" was going to get all the good stuff. I am in a monogamus relationship now, and am delirously happy knowing that I am the primary consideration of my lover. I met him at Austin Burningman Flipside in '04, fell in love with him that night after he rescued me off a damn trampoline, & have never even been interested in another man since then. Oh, thought some were cute & sexy but only as a thought, not an action. I have several friends who are actively poly, & it works for them beutifully. I grew up on Heinlein, who most definitely wrote polyamory into more common usage, but just concentrating on my love is fine with me. More power to people, I think any healthy love is good...whether you love just one or a whole damn platoon. Carpe diem! I wish I was more secure in myself, I have lots of love inside of me. & by healthy love I mean anything that occurs between 2 or more people that is ok by said people. Monogamus I am, a prude most definitely not.

[lono]

I'm more a traditional kind of girl and I wish "monogamy" was as prevalent in the Burner community as "polyamory". It's like, it's almost uncool to be monogamous or something.

Is it really all that prevalent in the burner community... I guess my milage may vary.

Wow... so much I want to say... not sure where to begin, or even if this is the right place to talk about it. I have been in a poly relationship for almost three years, longer then I have been in the burner community. My girlfriend of two of those years and I split (amiably) last June, and since then I have been doing a lot of thinking on the subject. Honestly, I have to say... I don't really know if it's for me. I got into it because my wife of 7 years came out to me, and I decided that I would rather try it out to see if it worked then walk away, but mostly it has never been something that I felt deeply personal about... (i.e. The girls bought me a Poly and Proud shirt for christmas a few years back and it has sat folded in my drawer ever since) I am not out to most of my friends or any of my family. At the moment I honestly have to say... I really don't see the advantage, but like most things it's much easier to get into then out of. Also in those three years I have seen the term "poly" used to justify some fairly crap behavior toward other people. Now, I stress that this is not aimed at anybody in particular... and obviously every situation is different, if it works for you great... but this is my experience.

Poly isn't, "I get to do whatever to whomever, whenever I want and you can't stop me!" It isn't supposed to be about leaping from one "soul mate" to another whenever the first isn't shiny and new any more, what you have there is a chew-toy! It should be about mutual understanding, communication, respect and love. And while I have seen some very shining examples of this working out very well... more often I see that when you are in a relationship with one person... it's complicated... put two (or more) into the mix... it gets exponentially more complex... you are dealing with human frailties and emotions... this is volatile stuff. Personally I really miss just being in a simple monogamous relationship... either that or just joining a monastery and avoiding the whole thing... but again... your milage may vary. :confused:

[Chai Guy]

I'm poly-crush-arous, but I prefer monogamy when dealing in "actual" relationships.

[DaBomb]

Overall, what an insightful post, Lono. Thanks for sharing.

Personally I really miss just being in a simple monogamous relationship... either that or just joining a monastery and avoiding the whole thing... but again... your milage may vary. :confused:

Celibacy is another option. It has served me very well for a period of time when I needed to recover from some very difficult relationships. It has kept me grounded and centered. I still went on rollercoaster rides with my polycrushes (thanks, Chai Guy, I totally get that!), but because I wasn't sleeping with anybody, it wasn't fucking with my head or my heart, so to speak.

Human beings can be rather fragile. And volatile. Like you said, Lono. Playing with sex can be like playing with fire. It's a good idea to ask yourself before sleeping with somebody: do I want sex? Or do I want love? Sometimes these can be two very different things and it's best to know who you are and what you want. Even better to know what your partner wants. Best if you're both on the same page.

[Chai Guy]

It's a good idea to ask yourself before sleeping with somebody: do I want sex? Or do I want love?

That reminds me, I once found out that a friend of mine had an "open" relationship with his partner. I asked him if they were "Poly" and he looked at me funny and said,

"Noooo, we just like to fuck other people!"

[DaBomb]

I see the difference. They really just want to fuck other people, not necessarily have a relationship with others.

[lono]

Human beings can be rather fragile. And volatile. Like you said, Lono. Playing with sex can be like playing with fire.

Actually playing with fire is much easier... and hurts a lot less... besides... Celibacy sucks... sorry just personal experience... but you have to admit it's lots less complicated.

[DaBomb]

Celibacy sucks... sorry just personal experience... but you have to admit it's lots less complicated.

Indeed.